00:18: Charlie Rose: Since he was about 15 years old, Academy Award-winning film director Quentin Tarantino has been influenced by the novels and the work of Elmore Leonard, so it is no surprise that Tarantino turned to Leonard's book, Rum Punch, for the follow-up to his ground-breaking film, Pulp Fiction. His new movie is called Jackie Brown and here's a clip.
00:37: Pam Grier: (''Jackie Brown'' trailer) If you had the chance to walk off with a half million dollars, would you take it?
00:44: Samuel L. Jackson: Yeah.
00:46: Announcer: What do a stewardess, a gun runner, a bail bondsman, an ex-con, a federal agent and a beach bunny have in common?
00:53: Samuel L. Jackson: You going to come in on this thing with me, you got to be prepared to go all the way.
01:00: Announcer: They're all chasing a half million in cash.
01:02: Pam Grier: Wouldn't even be missed.
01:04: Robert Forster: Half a million dollars will always be missed.
01:06: Bridget Fonda: Let him get the money and then just take it from him.
01:13: Samuel L. Jackson: (unintelligible) your ass (unintelligible)
01:15: Bridget Fonda: That was fun.
01:16: Robert De Niro: Yeah, that really hit the spot. (unintelligible) seeing your girlfriend.
01:19: Samuel L. Jackson: That what you (unintelligible) I hope you felt appropriately guilty afterwards.
01:25: Robert De Niro: Afterwards I did.
01:27: Announcer: There's only one question. 1st
01:31: Actor: I ain't getting in this trunk.
01:32: Samuel L. Jackson: You ain't going to be in here no more than 10 minutes. 1st
01:36: Actor: Man, I ain't riding in no trunk for no minute.
01:38: Announcer: Who's playing who? 2nd
01:40: Actor: Let's make a deal.
01:41: Michael Keaton: (unintelligible)
01:43: Robert Forster: Are you going to offer to set him up?
01:45: Pam Grier: Yeah.
01:46: Michael Keaton: (unintelligible) doing something stupid.
01:47: Announcer: Pam Grier, Samuel L. Jackson, Robert Forster, Bridget Fonda, Michael Keaton and Robert De Niro.
01:52: Samuel L. Jackson: Is she dead?
01:53: Robert De Niro: All right. I-- I--
01:56: Samuel L. Jackson: Yes or no. Is she dead?
01:58: Robert De Niro: Pretty much.
01:59: Announcer: Quentin Tarantino's Jackie Brown.
02:01: Charlie Rose: It's Quentin Tarantino and it's a pleasure to have him back on this broadcast since Pulp Fiction was released. Welcome back.
02:06: Quentin Tarantino: It's really good to be back at the table.
02:08: Charlie Rose: Thank you. Thank you. We had a terrific response from Pulp Fiction and from the interview you did with us.
02:14: Quentin Tarantino: Oh, I-- that's-- I've always considered that, like, the best filmed interview I have ever done. I mean far and away, actually.
02:19: Charlie Rose: Thank you. Tell me about this film and coming to it and what was it about Elmore Leonard's Rum Punch that made you want to make it into a movie?
02:27: Quentin Tarantino: Well, it's funny. I mean, I've always wanted to do-- every time I read an Elmore Leonard novel, I'm kind of adapting it in my head--
02:32: Charlie Rose: Yeah. Right.
02:37: Quentin Tarantino: --how I would do it and I have a little list, a little pink piece of paper, and I'll write down ideas for casting and everything and kind of, like, start adapting it in my mind. I just-- I-- every one I do, I do that with. And I'd actually read this book somewhere in between galleys and actually being published, of Rum Punch, just before I was getting-- like, as I was just finishing up the script for Pulp Fiction.
02:53: Charlie Rose: Right.
02:54: Quentin Tarantino: And I read it and it was, like, I was really interested in doing it. I just kind of saw the movie in my head--
02:59: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
03:01: Quentin Tarantino: --and I liked the idea of the female lead character and I liked the characters in it. And I bought it up to do it and then it was one of those things where it's, like, you know, I'd-- they'd have to, like, take it off the market and they would-- I would have to be for sure-- that's what I would do after Pulp Fiction. And no director can really say, ''Oh, I'm going to do this after that'' because you don't know.
03:16: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
03:19: Quentin Tarantino: So we let it go. And then we-- it kind of ended up coming back way after the fact, after Pulp Fiction was made and-- way after Pulp Fiction. And then I-- I just read the book again as-- just to read it again and same movie--
03:29: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
03:31: Quentin Tarantino: --came back in front of me again. And I was, like, ''That's a sign. I want to do this. I-- this is speaking to me.''
03:38: Charlie Rose: Did you see Pam Grier from the beginning or did that come to you late?
03:42: Quentin Tarantino: It-- it-- it came to me-- if-- if the time in between deciding I wanted to do it as a movie and writing the script is the middle, then it came in the middle--
03:50: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
03:52: Quentin Tarantino: --because what I did is, I just read the book and I actually didn't fantasize about an actress. I just kind of saw Jackie as the character in the book.
03:58: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
04:00: Quentin Tarantino: And then after I read the book, I started, like, thinking-- which is actually rare for me because normally I try to put an actor's face to it, even if it's an actor I end up not using.
04:09: Charlie Rose: While you're writing the screenplay.
04:11: Quentin Tarantino: Well, just when I'm, like, reading the book--
04:15: Charlie Rose: Right.
04:16: Quentin Tarantino: --if I'm reading a novel or reading a script or something. So then when I started, like, trying to solidify what I wanted to do with this movie, I started thinking of who could play this character. And, you know, she needed to be in her mid-40s. That was something that needed to have happen, all right, because it's the first thing that anybody-- mostly anybody else adapting the novel would get rid of. They'd make her, like, 32 or something like that.
04:35: Charlie Rose: Right.
04:37: Quentin Tarantino: And it's such a major focus of why the character does what she does. And so I started thinking of-- and I've said this a few times and it's a kind of a funny thing, but it's actually the truth. I said, ''Okay, who is an actress that's in her mid-40s that looks like she's in her mid-30s, is, you know, just great-looking, you know, just a very-- has got strength in her look, as well as looking good, and also just looks like she could handle anything?''
05:00: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
05:01: Quentin Tarantino: You know, the main-- one of the main reasons that Jackie's able to pull off a lot of the things she's able to pull off is she's not a criminal. She's a regular human-- a regular person, regular citizen put amongst cops really pushing her, put amongst crooks, deadly crooks, really putting the bite on her and she always manages to keep her cool. And it's the fact that she keeps her cool that kind of keeps them like this. And I go, ''That sounds like Pam Grier.''
05:24: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
05:26: Quentin Tarantino: ''Pam Grier could do that. That's what Pam Grier does.'' And then, upon thinking of that idea, any other actress I'd even kind of halfway thought of just kind of went away. They just couldn't stand up to the power of what Pam Grier would have done-- would do with this role.
05:39: Charlie Rose: And you called her.
05:41: Quentin Tarantino: No, I didn't right away. I wanted to-- I wanted to write it first. I actually-- like, I didn't talk to her the entire time I was writing the script, and it took me about a year to write the script. So I'm turning it into a black woman and everything. The character's the same, but she's a different person, virtue of life experiences. And I can write black characters so I'm, like-- and I actually know mature black women very well and I have a tremendous amount of respect for them, so I was really enjoying putting that aspect into the character. And so I'm writing the character and about, like, three months before I'm finished writing it--
06:13: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
06:15: Quentin Tarantino: --and I'm talking about after a year of writing, all right, I bump into Pam at, like, this science fiction awards ceremony. She was there with Escape from L.A. and I was there with (unintelligible) So, like, I see her and-- I'd really been writing so much and just haven't been telling her, just going to-- I was just playing it cool. Normally, I'd just blurt it out, but this time I'm going to play it cool, all right? And I see her at the place, you know, and she-- I go, ''Pam''-- and I'm still-- I'm playing it way cool at this point. I'm, like, you know, ''Pam, writing a little something for you in my next movie. Think you're going to like it. That's all I'm going to say about it, all right?'' And she goes, ''Oh, man. Things are going really good with me,'' you know? ''I just did Escape from L.A. and I just got hired by Tim Burton to do a part in Mars Attacks and, you know, things are going real good, you know?'' And I go, ''Screw that mess. Wait'll you read what I got for you.''
07:02: Charlie Rose: Yeah, ''This is not a''--
07:04: Quentin Tarantino: ''I ain't going to say-- I ain't going to say anything. That's all I'm going to say, but just screw that mess and you just wait,'' okay?
07:11: Charlie Rose: Yeah. ''Be ready.''
07:14: Quentin Tarantino: ''Be ready, all right?'' She goes, ''Okay. Okay,'' you know? And then literally about three months later, I finished it and sent it to her.
07:21: Charlie Rose: What'd she say?
07:22: Quentin Tarantino: Well, I also screwed with her there, too, because I still didn't, like, let her know right away. What I-- I let her knew I was writing something, but the way I said it to her so it'd have the most impact--
07:29: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
07:31: Quentin Tarantino: --is I said, ''Okay, Pam, I'm going to send you a-- I'm going to send you a script,'' didn't mention the title. ''I'm going to send you the script. Look at the character Jackie Brown, okay? I'm just going to send you the script, all right?'' And then I sent it, like, regular mail as opposed to Fedex, all right? So she comes and she opens up this script and it says, Jackie Brown--
07:47: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
07:49: Quentin Tarantino: --with a little Post-It, ''Read Jackie Brown.'' You know, and she-- she loved it. She loved it. And actually, the first thing I said to her, to tell you the truth, after she read it, was-- I said, you know, ''You've got the part'' and we kind of talked about that for a while and then we got down-- in this one big, major phone conversation, you know, got down to the actual nuts and bolts towards the very end of it. And I just-- you know, and I said, ''Now, look. A lot of people are going to come to you and they're going to start talking this John Travolta business and everything and you can't pay any attention to any of that, all right? This is not about that. This is about you being the perfect actress to play this role and that's why you're getting cast, for no-- not because you won some '70s revival contest, all right, because you're the best actress to play this part, all right, and you can't think about any of that. We just got to get to work and just make Jackie Brown come alive.'' And, like, she came back with the greatest response. She goes, ''I'm not expecting-- I ain't expectin' nothin' that John Travolta got 'cause he's a 40-year-old white male and I'm a mid-40s black woman and they don't write the same parts for us.''
08:52: Charlie Rose: When you did Travolta--
08:54: Quentin Tarantino: Uh-huh.
08:56: Charlie Rose: When you brought him in for Pulp Fiction, did you have any sense that you wanted to recreate his career or you wanted to bring his career back?
09:01: Quentin Tarantino: No.
09:03: Charlie Rose: Or was it just ''This is''-- as it is with her--
09:06: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah.
09:08: Charlie Rose: --''He's the right actor for the role and whatever happens will happen''?
09:11: Quentin Tarantino: Well, it's, like, I wanted that later. I mean, I-- it was the later. I was just casting the right actor for the right role.
09:16: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
09:18: Quentin Tarantino: I wanted him to come back in a big way.
09:20: Charlie Rose: Sure.
09:22: Quentin Tarantino: That would have-- that would be fantastic, you know?
09:26: Charlie Rose: But you didn't stay on-- go out on a mission to--
09:29: Quentin Tarantino: No.
09:30: Charlie Rose: ''I love John Travolta and I'm going to make him''--
09:33: Quentin Tarantino: No. No. I mean-- I mean, it's one of those things where it's, like-- oh, gosh. I'm trying to, like, find the best way to put it. You know, it's, like-- you know, that-- that's like-- me and Mira started going out with each other when-- just a little bit before she got nominated for the Oscar.
09:46: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
09:47: Quentin Tarantino: I didn't go out with her because I thought she was going to win the Oscar.
09:50: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
09:51: Quentin Tarantino: But it's pretty damn great that she won the Oscar, all right? That's, like, fantastic. I'm so happy for her. I couldn't want anything more, all right? And I would send out every positive thing towards that. But no, I casted him as an actor--
10:03: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
10:05: Quentin Tarantino: --to do, like, the role, you know? But I actually-- and I wanted him to fulfill his destiny just because I like watching him as an actor.
10:10: Charlie Rose: You thought he had a destiny.
10:12: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah.
10:14: Charlie Rose: I mean, you thought ''This guy's much better than the roles he's getting.''
10:17: Quentin Tarantino: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I just-- people just have bad memories and it's a-- it's a damn shame. I mean-- but it's really funny now. It's one of those things. Because I did that with John and you could--
10:27: Charlie Rose: Right.
10:29: Quentin Tarantino: --you know, argue that I-- I-- you know, that Reservoir Dogs helped Harvey Keitel's career a lot, too--
10:34: Charlie Rose: Right. Right.
10:36: Quentin Tarantino: --all right, and now I've cast Pam and I've cast Robert Forster, you know-- you know, let's face it, Pam and Robert Forster-- anybody else in Hollywood adapting Rum Punch, all right, probably wouldn't have cast those two people, okay, probably, one, because they probably wouldn't have made the character black for Pam and they probably don't even know who Robert Forster is--
10:49: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
10:51: Quentin Tarantino: --all right? That's just the bottom line, all right? I didn't do that to prove, ''Oh, I'm Mr. Cool,'' all right, ''watch me bring these people back.'' I did it because there's something-- I think one of the worst things that happens in Hollywood is very un-creativeness when it comes to casting and part of that un-creativity, that un-artlessness that happens in casting, is you basically have the same names on this list that the studio makes, all right, and it's the same-- and it's the same, like, list of names that are working on the high-profile films. Every once in a while, somebody else gets in there, but it's-- they usually better be young. They better be a youngster, all right? And I'm not talking about Harrison Ford and Tom Hanks. I'm talking about all the way down to the character actors, the bumbling sheriff and the-- or the corrupt sheriff and his bumbling deputy.
11:35: Charlie Rose: There's a list for all of those kinds of roles.
11:38: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah, and it's, like, you know, there's the high-profile character actor. And that's why, when you go see Hollywood movies, you see the same big kind of-- more or less bigger-name character actors in five, six movies, all right? And what happens is, as five years goes on, some of them stay on that list, some of them drop off, new people come on, all right? Robert Forster didn't go anywhere, all right? He's been working, but he's way off that list and he's, like, doing, like, straight-to-video movies and stuff and some of those movies are okay and some of them are even pretty good and some of them are horrible, but he's good in all of them, all right? And the thing is, I don't have that list. I have a good memory. I know that Robert Forster's still there and he's still kicking butt, all right? I know Pam Grier's still there and she's still kicking butt. I've got a much longer list and the only thing you need to be to be on that list is a good actor, all right? And that doesn't make me cool, it's just I just have more of a memory than most directors or most casting directors.
12:27: Charlie Rose: Okay, but suppose Harvey Weinstein came to you and said, ''Look, you can-- if you cast Madonna in this role''-- (unintelligible) one example-- ''or if you cast''-- if it's a male role and you put Hanks in the role--
12:38: Quentin Tarantino: Right.
12:40: Charlie Rose: --he's in his 40s--
12:41: Quentin Tarantino: Uh-huh.
12:43: Charlie Rose: --''it'll make more money for us, so we need star power in this film. We need your brilliance as a director, but we need star power,'' are you going to say, ''No, that's not what I do. The star power here is a Quentin Tarantino film and that's what I'm delivering to you and that's what made Pulp Fiction and''--
12:57: Quentin Tarantino: Well, that conversation has happened on every one of my movies, at one time or another, all right, but it's a conversation. It's not an order. It's not a dictate. I mean, it's, like--
13:07: Charlie Rose: It's ''Why not?' ' It's that kind of conversation.
13:10: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah. Well, it's-- it's-- I mean, it's, like, all things being equal, you know, we really think there's an excitement about you working with this fellow over here.''
13:18: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
13:19: Quentin Tarantino: --all right, ''and just know that if you do it with him, then,'' you know, ''we'll be able to sell the movie more overseas because of this and that and the other. Now, we'll still be able to do well with the film, but just know. And is there a reason why you don't want to use him? Don't you like him as an actor,'' all right? And it's, like, sometimes the answer is, ''You know what? There is no reason. He's the perfect guy for the role,'' all right? If I wrote a movie and Tom Hanks was the perfect guy for the role, I'd campaign-- I'd get him. I'd want to--
13:45: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
13:47: Quentin Tarantino: --I mean, if he wanted to do it, all right? I wouldn't be, like, ''Oh, no. I want to cast Blankety-Blank,'' all right? No. Tom Hanks is a fantastic actor. But in the-- you know, but in this case -- one -- it's, like, Pam Grier's role was set. I mean, at one point, it was actually even kind of funny because, like, one time somebody asked me something to the effect of did I read her.
14:04: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
14:06: Quentin Tarantino: All right? I go, ''Well''--
14:09: Charlie Rose: ''Did she audition?' '
14:11: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah. Did I audition her. You know, I go, ''Well, you know, you don't write a Bronson movie and then ask Bronson to read.''
14:15: Charlie Rose: So you're doing a Grier movie, then?
14:16: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah. Yeah.
14:20: Charlie Rose: This is a Grier movie.
14:21: Quentin Tarantino: I mean, the-- I mean, I say that-- I say that, like, affectionately, all right?
14:25: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
14:26: Quentin Tarantino: It's really-- you know, the-- it's-- you know, it's not really a Pam Grier movie, but it is a Pam Grier movie, in a fun way.
14:31: Charlie Rose: One more word about casting. De Niro's here.
14:33: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah. Uh-huh.
14:36: Charlie Rose: Why De Niro? Something he wanted to do? Something you wanted for him?
14:40: Quentin Tarantino: Something we both wanted to do together.
14:41: Charlie Rose: Wanted to work together.
14:43: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah. And the thing is, it's like with-- Robert read the-- read the script and really liked the character of Louis. (sp? )
14:51: Charlie Rose: Right.
14:52: Quentin Tarantino: And I remember talking to him about it because I adore the character of Louis and I remember one of the things that I said to him is I said, ''Look, I think this is one of the best acting roles I've ever written. And if I was old enough to play the guy, I'd be playing Louis, all right, but I'm not old enough. The guy needs more age to him to make the character really work. That's what Dutch wrote.'' And the thing is-- but it's different from all the other acting roles I've ever written because it's not about dialogue. It's not about the guy saying all this, like, really cool stuff. It's a performance that needs to be given in body language, all right? And I remember even describing it to him. I said, ''I want Louis to have the body language of a pile of dirty clothes.'' And I happened to be talking to one of the greatest character actors in the history of the medium, all right, one of the greatest body language actors in the history of the medium. He can get-- he got across those whole last four years in jail in the movie-- in the movie that he plays, which you never see him in jail, ever.
15:47: Charlie Rose: Yeah. Right.
15:50: Quentin Tarantino: But he-- there's, like, a baked quality to him. It's like he doesn't even quite realize how that last four years kind of took something out of him. That's just all in the way he kind of holds his drink and the way he just kind of, like, you know, just sits on the chair and just kind of, like, glazes and watches T.V. and just listens to people talk and has his little drink there. He gets it all across in just physical movement and, you know, he's just a wonderful character actor.
16:11: Charlie Rose: With no instruction from you.
16:13: Quentin Tarantino: No, we worked--
16:15: Charlie Rose: Minimal instruction.
16:16: Quentin Tarantino: Well--
16:18: Charlie Rose: A collaboration.
16:19: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah, very much a collaboration. Very much a collaboration. And I feel very honored about that. He wanted to-- we worked very, very well together and he knew I understood the character, too. I was actually thinking about this the other day. It's like-- when a writer creates a character, it's like-- it's like the characters are children, all right? You're its mother, its father, all right? When an actor takes the character from you, it's like they're lovers, all right? Now, ultimately, people, you know, they grow on and, ultimately, it needs to be the wife-man or whatever relationship that it needs to-- needs to, like, make it come-- come through and the parents need to kind of, like, let it go its course, all right? But it-- to me, when you're, like, really investing into a lot of character work, that's kind of the relationship. And so that's-- we did that together, completely, and it was very, very-- I'm not taking credit for his work, but I'm just saying that-- because that's-- that's his work. And he worked very well with his make-up woman. His make-up woman is, like, the third member of the creative team because she's not doing make-up-- her name is Ilona (sp? ) and she's magnificent.
17:22: Charlie Rose: She works with him wherever he goes?
17:24: Quentin Tarantino: She works with him-- that's what she does. She does-- she does--
17:28: Charlie Rose: She makes up De Niro.
17:30: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah. But it's not about--
17:31: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
17:33: Quentin Tarantino: It's not about vanity. It's not about making him look good.
17:36: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
17:38: Quentin Tarantino: It's about character. It's about, you know, would this character have coffee stains on his teeth? You know, what color hair? How much gray in it? Any gray at all? Should the whole thing be gray, all right? You know, sideburns-- what about the tattoos? It's all about character and then it's, like, Bob, me and her. And I was very lucky to be brought into that-- you know, to have him so willingly bring me into that creative process with him.
17:58: Charlie Rose: And when you looked at the dailies and when you looked at the film, when you were editing it, how good is he?
18:03: Quentin Tarantino: It's-- he deserves his reputation as possibly the greatest actor of his generation. I've-- I've come to the conclusion, from editing a film that he's made, seeing every last little bit of footage, I think he is the best actor in the world.
18:18: Charlie Rose: And what makes the best actor in the world? What is it that you see there? Because in sports you can measure it. ''He won five Masters.'' ''He was a Wimbledon champion.''
18:30: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah. Yeah.
18:35: Charlie Rose: ''He won the''--
18:37: Quentin Tarantino: I know exactly what you mean.
18:39: Charlie Rose: --''World Series.'' ''He's run the mile in three minutes and 57 seconds''-- you know, that kind of thing. What is it about the best actor?
18:45: Quentin Tarantino: Well, I'll tell you what I mean from my point because you almost can't compare artists to athletes because somebody's this is not somebody's that. Having said that, I've never seen an actor so completely consume himself in character, in true character work during the work, all right? And what I mean by that is when Robert is playing Louis and you're looking at every single, solitary piece of footage you've ever shot on the man, all right, every single moment he is Louis. He is working moment to moment. He's not thinking about, ''Over here I'm going to do this and this and this and I'm going to get to this.'' ''Over here'' doesn't exist. The only thing is right here, what's happening right now. And you know, some acting people suggest something to the effect of, like, there's a zillion choices out there and any one of them is possible and any one of them is great. I actually don't believe that at all. If you are really in character, you only have a few choices. If something weird were to happen at this table right now, there's not a zillion ways Charlie Rose is going to react. There's probably about four ways--
19:48: Charlie Rose: Exactly.
19:50: Quentin Tarantino: --Charlie Rose will react.
19:52: Charlie Rose: Right.
19:54: Quentin Tarantino: All right? And De Niro has that down. He is so in character. He could be doing a scene right here, right now--
19:58: Charlie Rose: If he was doing me, he'd know the four.
20:00: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah. Yeah. He would. He would know the four and if a dog came walking onto the set, he's not going to go, ''Oh, cut'' or anything like that. He--
20:09: Charlie Rose: He would do what I would do.
20:10: Quentin Tarantino: He'll make that work. He'll do what you would do.
20:12: Charlie Rose: Right. Right. Right. You want to be, over the term of your life and career, considered serious about acting.
20:20: Quentin Tarantino: Uh-huh. Yes.
20:25: Charlie Rose: You don't want people to think, ''I do these cameo things'' or ''I play with acting as a kind of fun thing.'' You want to say, ''I can do this''--
20:30: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah.
20:32: Charlie Rose: --''and I'm going to polish, work on, develop that craft.''
20:37: Quentin Tarantino: That's exactly true, yeah. And it's, like-- it's kind of blowing people's minds.
20:41: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
20:43: Quentin Tarantino: I don't think people either know what to make of it--
20:46: Charlie Rose: They don't take you seriously when you talk about acting?
20:49: Quentin Tarantino: Well, I actually think they are this go-around, all right, but it's the first time I've ever really talked about it, all right, in serious terms and kind of stating where I'm coming from. I think they thought I was screwing around before.
20:58: Charlie Rose: Yeah. Right.
21:02: Quentin Tarantino: All right? And you know, I can even kind of see where they're coming from just a little bit insofar as some of the things I did early on, which I'm not ashamed of, but they were, like-- they were-- they were what they were supposed to be. They were supposed to be kind of comedy turns.
21:14: Charlie Rose: Why do you want to be an actor? Why do you want to act, is the word, not a question of why you want to be an actor-- (crosstalk)
21:20: Quentin Tarantino: Why do I want to act? Well, it's-- it's what I started doing, all right? It's, like-- it was-- it was my first entry into show business was acting. The only formal study I've ever had in my entire life has been acting. I quit school in the 9th grade. I didn't go to high school. I didn't go to college. I didn't go to director's school. I didn't go to writing school, whatever that would be. I've-- I've studied acting and I've studied boxing and those are the only forms of-- only sense of study I've-- or academia I've ever had.
21:48: Charlie Rose: And did you find anything similar about those two things, acting and boxing?
21:53: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah. Yeah, actually, I have. I have. It's, like, about, you know, not going backwards, going forward, going forward and just-- not even so much being aggressive, but just, like, you know, not going backwards towards what you're trying to do.
22:09: Charlie Rose: So you're leaning in, in terms of acting.
22:10: Quentin Tarantino: Exactly. The thing is, though, as far as-- but the thing is-- look, I understand that. I understand people might think that. But you know what, though? I don't have to worry about that because I'm going to be here for a little while. And yeah, I'm probably not going to get any respect for it for--
22:24: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
22:26: Quentin Tarantino: --maybe the next year, two years. Who knows? But I'm going to keep doing it, all right? And then eventually, if the-- and if the work is standing up, they-- people will not be able to help but see the work. But I say that and I sound a little weird when I say that, to meet my own self, because I sound a little defensive. And it's only the media. It's not other actors. I have got nothing but encouragement from other actors. Other actors respect my work that I did in Dusk Till Dawn. They liked the work. Other filmmakers liked my work that I did. They liked that and they're looking forward to me to do something else. And they like that I'm not letting Entertainment Weekly, all right, make-- because they might like-- write a snotty thing about me, but I'm not going to stop. Mira supports me all the way down the line on this and it's-- it's so great.
23:16: Charlie Rose: Has she changed you? Mira Sorvino, your lady-- has she changed you at all? Has she-- I mean, are you, because of her in your life, in any way different? Have you mellowed? Have you done anything different? Are you more driven, more in touch, more anything?
23:34: Quentin Tarantino: I think what she did for me-- I think it was something-- it-- I think, also, it was just-- it was wonderful timing. It was something that I think was happening in me anyway, just as a function of time.
23:51: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
23:53: Quentin Tarantino: And I just happened to have just the right lady come in there to make the process even smoother and even deeper and go a little further with it than I would have maybe on my own-- is I'm just a man now.
24:02: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
24:04: Quentin Tarantino: You know? I held onto my boyhood-- not even too long. I was just fine. I was a-- I was a boy, a kid, and having a great time and it was all good. It was all good.
24:14: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
24:16: Quentin Tarantino: All right? And--
24:21: Charlie Rose: It was a hell of a ride.
24:23: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah. And I look at old interviews with myself and everything that I did and everything-- forget about the stuff before that. I just look at old interviews with myself and I like that guy. That's a nice guy, all right? But I'm just a man now. It's just different, all right? And I also realize--
24:41: Charlie Rose: So it's maturity or something.
24:43: Quentin Tarantino: It's--
24:44: Charlie Rose: The difference between--
24:46: Quentin Tarantino: It's maturity. It's masculinity.
24:47: Charlie Rose: Yeah. Right.
24:50: Quentin Tarantino: It's every-- and these were all things that I-- that held in reserve. But you see, I don't know to say this other than to just say this. Mira's a real woman. She's a woman, all right? And I was coming into my own as a man, all right, and then woman met man and woman and man got deeper, all right? We met each other at just the right time. But she's-- she's a woman and-- and you've got to keep up with a real woman. When you're with a real woman, you-- you better be a real man.
25:09: Charlie Rose: And she would say the same thing, do you think, in terms of understanding the sort of dynamics of this relationship?
25:16: Quentin Tarantino: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think so. I think so. You'd have to ask her.
25:23: Charlie Rose: I will. She's-- Clint Eastwood, for you-- as you look in terms of body of work--
25:27: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah.
25:28: Charlie Rose: --which is a word that comes to you now, and you think about that. You know you're established. You know that you have something going. You know you've got talent, craft, vision--
25:36: Quentin Tarantino: Right.
25:37: Charlie Rose: --you-- and abilities in a variety of the disciplines that make a film. Eastwood you admire because?
25:42: Quentin Tarantino: Well, actually, the-- what I admire the most about Clint Eastwood, all right, is-- is the fact that he's an artist and he's an artist who has managed to control his own world with a patron studio.
25:52: Charlie Rose: Warner's.
25:55: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah, Warner Bros., all right? He has a very unique situation at Warner Bros. Now, there's other filmmakers that have unique situations. Martin Scorsese could set up a situation like that pretty much at any place and that-- he'd be doing his thing, all right? And Woody Allen has that relationship with whoever he works with and-- but Eastwood is a little different because Eastwood has a situation with Warner Bros. and it's lasted for a long time, all right, and it's been profitable for them for a long time. And he has sort of, like, a responsibility that you just don't see in other filmmakers, as far as his relationship to Warner Bros. They're family. There's just no two, three, four ways about it, okay? Clint Eastwood is a member of the Warner Bros. family, all right, and at the end of the day, he's almost-- he is as important as anybody at Warner Bros. and it doesn't matter if his last film was a hit or not.
26:45: Charlie Rose: Back to this movie, because I want to move on to a lot of other things. When you were making this movie-- you've written your script. You've given it to Miramax. ''This is the script I'm working on. This is the script. This is it, guys. We're going.''
27:01: Quentin Tarantino: Right.
27:02: Charlie Rose: ''We've cast this thing. We've got De Niro. We've got Pam Grier and we've got Forster. We've got''-- who else?
27:08: Quentin Tarantino: Bridget Fonda.
27:09: Charlie Rose: ''We've got Bridget Fonda in this.''
27:11: Quentin Tarantino: Michael Keaton.
27:12: Charlie Rose: ''And Michael Keaton is in this. And so we're ready to go.'' What's it like once you start? You get up in the morning and you go shoot. You've got your shooting schedule there. Did you come in on time for this film?
27:20: Quentin Tarantino: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We always finish on time.
27:26: Charlie Rose: Not over budget.
27:28: Quentin Tarantino: No, no, no, no. A little under budget, actually.
27:31: Charlie Rose: What do you do other than make the film while you're making a film?
27:34: Quentin Tarantino: Well, you know, it's funny because I directed this film a little differently than I've directed my other movies and I think it was partly due to the influence that acting's had on me recently, just thinking about it a lot. When I was talking about De Niro, we were talking about the whole thing of getting moment to moment, all right, and not being result-oriented. It's about just where you're going, while you're at that moment. And I showed up on the set-- I'd show up on the set-- and I did this a lot in the first two weeks and then, finally, it was just completely my way of working-- is I'd show up on the set with not a shot list or no storyboards or anything like that, all right? I mean, for, like, a really big cinematic sequence-- like, I knew I wanted to have that crane shot and that stuff with Ordelle (sp? ) and Beaumont, (sp? ) you know, in the trunk. I knew that. I don't need a crane for that day because you've got to tell them ''Get the crane out.'' But aside from that is most of the just acting scenes, I'd show up first thing in the day and I wouldn't have a shot list. We didn't know exactly what we were going to do, all right? We'd just go on the set and we all shot on location. And then me and the actors would walk through the scene with-- the crew is gone, except for maybe the cinematographer. And we'd just kind of go through the scene, all right? And we would see where we were that day. Yeah, we had two weeks of rehearsal, but nothing was ridiculously set, unless it was super-important. And we just kind of found it-- very no pressure, just discovered it that day, all right? So then we did that. And then once you do that, especially when you're talking about an acting scene-- how to cover the film becomes fairly obvious. You know, where is the best place to put the camera to get the most out of what the people are doing? So then you send the guys off to make-up and then I would do the shot list and then I knew, after about a couple hours or an hour and a half or so-- actually, about an hour and a half, you know, from the moment set officially started, I'd know what I wanted to do that day. And I liked working that way. It's, like, directing moment to moment. It's-- it's-- I'm not dragging-- I always make fun of people who do all this work in their bedroom--
29:38: Charlie Rose: Right.
29:40: Quentin Tarantino: --you know, with the shot list, or even actors practicing how they're going to do this and that. You got to leave the bedroom at home--
29:45: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
29:47: Quentin Tarantino: --all right, you know, as an actor, which you want, you know? And actors-- some actors are different, but like, you know, what I like, my method, is to just invest in the character and don't worry about the text. Just invest in the character and when you show up, you're the character and there you go. Same thing as a director, but instead of investing in character, you're investing in the text. You're trusting the fact that you know this piece of material.
30:07: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
30:09: Quentin Tarantino: So now it's up on its feet.
30:12: Charlie Rose: Name me five living-- the list is not just five, but name me five living directors that could teach you something about directing.
30:20: Quentin Tarantino: Steven Spielberg--
30:23: Charlie Rose: Because?
30:25: Quentin Tarantino: He's just-- he's just such a-- a perfect filmmaker, as far as, like-- you know, when he comes up-- you know, like, the taking of Shanghai sequence, for instance, in Empire of the Sun-- and I talked to him about Private Ryan (sp? ) and he goes, ''Oh, we're going to create the greatest,'' like, ''taking of Omaha beach ever'' and I have no doubt he will, all right? He's just a master moviemaker.
30:46: Charlie Rose: This is a film he's making now.
30:48: Quentin Tarantino: Exactly, this one coming out, you know? And I'm sure he's going to do the greatest taking of Omaha beach ever captured in cinema-- on film ever. You know-- you know, that kind of filmmaking language, I think I've got it, too, but in a different way, but I could learn something from him.
31:00: Charlie Rose: Okay.
31:01: Quentin Tarantino: I could definitely learn something from him.
31:05: Charlie Rose: Spielberg is one.
31:07: Quentin Tarantino: Spielberg would be one. I don't-- I think I could learn-- I think I could learn things about-- from-- I could learn from Scorsese, but how I could learn from Scorsese is not, like, how he does anything, you know what I mean, because how he does it is how he does it and how I do it is how I do it. But Spielberg-- I mean-- I mean, Scorsese is so much film and love of film, I might be a better director if I just had dinner at his house every week and we just talked. Does that make sense?
31:34: Charlie Rose: Oh, of course it does. Yeah.
31:37: Quentin Tarantino: All right? Not about filmmaking per se. And I wouldn't doubt that he didn't feel that way about Fellini, too.
31:43: Charlie Rose: When Fellini died, he came on this show--
31:45: Quentin Tarantino: Oh, I--
31:46: Charlie Rose: --and talked about him.
31:47: Quentin Tarantino: --saw it. I saw it. Yeah.
31:51: Charlie Rose: Now, here's the interesting thing is that you two share that. I've never asked Marty this, but I think other people have talked about it. In fact, women in his life have talked on this program about it. When women come into his life, he has them watch films. I mean, they're-- I mean, Dawn Steel (sp? ) talks about that.
32:04: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah.
32:05: Charlie Rose: You know? Do you do the same thing? I mean, are you--
32:10: Quentin Tarantino: I--
32:12: Charlie Rose: --obsessed about movies so much-- the history, the love, the differences--
32:15: Quentin Tarantino: I was.
32:17: Charlie Rose: --the composition--
32:19: Quentin Tarantino: Not so much anymore.
32:20: Charlie Rose: That's when you were--
32:21: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah.
32:23: Charlie Rose: Before you became a man?
32:24: Quentin Tarantino: Well, no. I mean, that does-- I don't think there's that much of a correlation between them. I think it's more like I have some money now and I don't have to work so much--
32:29: Charlie Rose: Okay.
32:30: Quentin Tarantino: --so I can actually live a life.
32:32: Charlie Rose: Okay. All right.
32:34: Quentin Tarantino: All right? But no-- but I mean, there is-- that's a big deal, though, as far as, like, when you've had your eye on the prize for something for so long and now you have it and it's, like, under control. That's okay now.
32:43: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
32:45: Quentin Tarantino: So now I can kind of look up and see other things. Having said that, I've actually been giving Mira, like--
32:49: Charlie Rose: Yeah. Exactly.
32:52: Quentin Tarantino: --a really wonderful film education and you know what? It's educational for me, too, because I'm seeing a lot of stuff, like, you know, really old stuff new through her eyes. I was never, like, the gigantic Frank Capra fan.
33:00: Charlie Rose: Right.
33:02: Quentin Tarantino: I've liked Frank Capra, but I've never like, just thought he was the beginning and end, like some people have. Well, I knew Mira would love Frank Capra, okay? And so I started showing her some of his films and damn if I didn't, like, get really sucked into his technique and his world and his-- you know, his comedy and his-- I don't know, just everything. I rediscovered him kind of through her eyes.
33:21: Charlie Rose: And so the questions she asks infuses and informs how you might approach this-- back to this. (indicating glass of water) When you put that there, you said, ''This is the goal.'' What was that for you? What is it that enabled you-- what have you achieved and what is that so that you can look up and see other things?
33:36: Quentin Tarantino: Well, this was a life in film, all right, and I didn't have an education. There was, like, nothing-- I didn't have a film school education. I didn't have any money and I didn't have any connections and I was, like, the epitome-- it's really funny. I was looking at, like, some interviews I did at the time of Reservoir Dogs and I was, like, ''You know, I can actually see why I got kind of famous from those interviews because I was about as much of an outsider as a person could possibly be,'' all right? And so it was, like, in order to not fall back, I needed to just focus in on what it was that I wanted from my life and my art form. And the easiest thing to do in this business, all right, in any kind of-- I'm sure it's the same thing in journalism, is-- it's easy to settle-- you know, you want this, but you settle for this because this is not this. This is not what you dreamed of, but it's damn close to it. Your life is still involved in it and it's-- and it's okay.
34:34: Charlie Rose: Yeah. The other thing about is once you get this-- this-- you know, which is partly knowing you can do it--
34:42: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah.
34:44: Charlie Rose: --knowing that you--
34:46: Quentin Tarantino: Right.
34:47: Charlie Rose: --you know, and that's partly the self-realization thing-- you then can know how to push it towards whatever that dream is.
34:54: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah.
34:56: Charlie Rose: You know that you've got sort of a gravitas, a sort of a body of things that will push you--
35:01: Quentin Tarantino: But--
35:03: Charlie Rose: --on the journey.
35:04: Quentin Tarantino: But what's weird about directing is there's no other art form that's any-- that has this kind of situation. You can think all you want and you can work-- work great with actors or you can, like, dream up great shots in your head that no one else has ever come up with--
35:13: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
35:14: Quentin Tarantino: --or you can do anything like that, but until you've actually done it, done a movie, which means money, which means film going through camera, which means working with actors--
35:22: Charlie Rose: Right.
35:23: Quentin Tarantino: --and working with a crew and running it all--
35:26: Charlie Rose: Right.
35:27: Quentin Tarantino: --all right, you don't know if you've got what it takes to do the job. You've got to convince somebody--
35:32: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
35:33: Quentin Tarantino: --to put a whole lot of people behind you and a whole lot of money to just see if you-- (crosstalk)
35:36: Charlie Rose: --but having done it--
35:37: Quentin Tarantino: --can do it.
35:39: Charlie Rose: I know. But I mean, my point was that, including having done it, so that you--
35:44: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah.
35:46: Charlie Rose: --once you have done it--
35:48: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah.
35:50: Charlie Rose: --you know you can do it.
35:51: Quentin Tarantino: Well, that's--
35:53: Charlie Rose: And you know you can do it better and better.
35:54: Quentin Tarantino: Well, that's the weird thing about it. That's the bizarre thing that I noticed on this film was-- it was really weird when we did Pulp Fiction because just having done one film, our knowledge on just the experience, all right, was, like, staggering. This movie was even different than that. This is the movie I became a professional. I've always--
36:08: Charlie Rose: This movie, Jackie Brown?
36:10: Quentin Tarantino: This movie, Jackie Brown. I've always considered myself, you know, an amateur and kind of proud of that amateur status--
36:14: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
36:15: Quentin Tarantino: --all right? And I had a little worry moment, actually, in pre-production of Jackie Brown. I was, like, ''My God, I'm-- I'm a professional.'' I didn't know if I ever wanted to be a professional, all right? There was something bad in that.
36:25: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
36:27: Quentin Tarantino: I didn't want to join the Guild because I didn't want to be a professional, all right? I wanted to hang onto my amateur status. And right at that moment, I read Peter Bogdanovich's book, that book he wrote of his interviews with the--
36:36: Charlie Rose: Right. Right. Right.
36:39: Quentin Tarantino: --other directors--
36:41: Charlie Rose: That was about three years ago, wasn't it?
36:42: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah. No, it's about--
36:45: Charlie Rose: No, no, no.
36:47: Quentin Tarantino: That was very shortly.
36:49: Charlie Rose: Okay.
36:50: Quentin Tarantino: No. No, it was just the one--
36:52: Charlie Rose: Right.
36:54: Quentin Tarantino: --he just did recently.
36:56: Charlie Rose: Oh, about the devil something?
36:57: Quentin Tarantino: Who the Devil Made It?
36:59: Charlie Rose: Who the Devil Made It? Right. Right.
37:02: Quentin Tarantino: And I got together with him. I just felt compelled to get together with him after reading the book because here's all these old pros and--
37:07: Charlie Rose: Right.
37:09: Quentin Tarantino: --he actually knew them, you know? And so I got together with--
37:11: Charlie Rose: They're great conversations. I read it.
37:15: Quentin Tarantino: And I'm talking to him and I was kind of telling him my feelings, you know, and he goes, ''Oh,'' you know, ''Quentin, that's-- that's kind of how it is,'' you know? ''You're just going to have to,'' you know, ''get over that because the truth of the matter is, after you've directed two movies, you kind of know how to do it. It's kind of easy. Once you've done it and you know how to do it, you know the job.''
37:31: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
37:32: Quentin Tarantino: But not knowing the job was the-- was the big question mark--
37:35: Charlie Rose: For you.
37:37: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah-- the first two times.
37:39: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
37:41: Quentin Tarantino: Not the art.
37:42: Charlie Rose: So now you're a professional.
37:44: Quentin Tarantino: Now I'm a professional.
37:45: Charlie Rose: It reminds me of Pat Riley, the basketball coach, was here once and he said at some point he realized-- you know, for a while there, he was just coaching, but he wasn't invested in it. He was doing the best he could and he was doing well--
37:53: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah.
37:55: Charlie Rose: --and then, at some point, he said, ''I'm a lifer. This is what I do.''
37:59: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah.
38:01: Charlie Rose: ''I coach basketball teams. That's what I do. And I'm proud of it and''--
38:04: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah.
38:06: Charlie Rose: --''I do it very well.''
38:07: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah.
38:09: Charlie Rose: ''And I'm pleased to call myself a basketball coach.''
38:11: Quentin Tarantino: Well, that's what I have to put up with when I have, like, little-- when I do interviews with people and they go, ''Well, do you ever just walk around and think about that video store and just pinch yourself?'' This is my life. I'm not pinching myself for living my life, all right? This is what I do now.
38:22: Charlie Rose: Back to this movie again. I want to take a look at this clip. This is from Jackie Brown. Take a look.
38:30: Pam Grier: Max, how do you feel about getting old?
38:32: Robert Forster: You're not old. You look great.
38:36: Pam Grier: No, I'm asking you how do you feel about getting old.
38:40: Robert Forster: Oh, I guess I got a little sensitive about my hair a few years ago. It started falling out so, you know, I did something about it.
38:46: Pam Grier: Yeah, but it's different for men.
38:48: Robert Forster: You know, I can't really feel too sorry for you in this department. I bet that except for possibly an Afro, you look exactly the way you did at 29.
39:00: Pam Grier: Well, my ass ain't the same.
39:03: Robert Forster: Bigger?
39:06: Pam Grier: Yeah.
39:09: Robert Forster: Ain't nothing wrong with that.
39:12: Charlie Rose: Why do you like that scene?
39:15: Quentin Tarantino: Oh, it's-- you don't see that that often in most movies, a scene like that, you know, or--
39:20: Charlie Rose: Well, what was different about it?
39:22: Quentin Tarantino: Well, it's, like, two people talking fairly honestly--
39:26: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
39:28: Quentin Tarantino: --about themselves. And there's something kind of wonderful about the relationship going on there.
39:35: Charlie Rose: And it-- but it's also kind of a basic--
39:37: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah.
39:39: Charlie Rose: So you did one cover shot.
39:41: Quentin Tarantino: Right. Oh, yeah. No, no. No, it's not reinventing cinema.
39:47: Charlie Rose: No. Which raises me to this question. What is it that makes a good director? What is it? I mean, is it choice of shots or is it something much more profound and fundamental, in terms of what separates the boys from the men? What separates those who have genius from those who can make good movies?
40:04: Quentin Tarantino: At the end of the day, I just think there are certain-- you know, this is going to sound so simplistic to say this, but I think-- in my heart of hearts I believe it. At the end of the day, there's just some people that God touched and just said, ''You know what? Here's''--
40:16: Charlie Rose: ''You're a director.''
40:18: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah. ''You're supposed to make movies.'' And there's other people that are theater directors and television directors and all kinds of stuff, but there are some people that it's just, like, you know, you know how to make movies be movies.
40:28: Charlie Rose: And you think that was what happened to you. And when did it happen? When did you think that thought? Or did you just know for a while that ''I love making movies. I love movies''?
40:36: Quentin Tarantino: Well, I knew I just-- all through my childhood, movies were, like, my one thing that I just adored and loved and-- above all others, all right? And you know, I wasn't that interested in athletics or any of that stuff. I was interested in movies. And when I started studying acting and, you know, I wanted to be an actor-- as I'm hanging around all these other actors and stuff and I realized that they didn't like movies half as much as I did and, as a matter of fact, they were pretty damn narcissistic, all right? They were just into themselves. And I seemed pure, in my way of thinking, about it, all right?
41:07: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
41:10: Quentin Tarantino: And at a certain point, I just realized that appearing in movies wasn't enough for me, all right? I just loved them too much to simply appear in them. I wanted them to be mine, all right? I wanted to have ownership over them. I wanted to create them. And, I mean, those were-- even when I was an actor, my heroes weren't other actors. My heroes were other-- were directors that I wanted to act for.
41:32: Charlie Rose: Let me-- I don't want you to get away with this question. You named two actors. Give me-- two directors. Give me three others that could inform you about the craft of directing.
41:43: Quentin Tarantino: Well, he died just recently, but I have to mention him because, actually, I learned a lot from Sam Fuller.
41:48: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
41:50: Quentin Tarantino: All right? Just-- so much of this stuff is very instinctual, you know? It just kind of seeps in.
41:56: Charlie Rose: Right.
41:58: Quentin Tarantino: But I-- you know, I have to also say-- you know what? I-- okay, let me tell you about the people who I could know and what they could teach me, as opposed to from osmosis. Living directors-- you know, I actually think, off the top of my head, those are the two that by knowing them-- knowing them--
42:14: Charlie Rose: Right. Right. Spielberg, Scorsese.
42:21: Quentin Tarantino: Spielberg and Scorsese, yeah. I mean, I don't think I would really learn anything from Godard. I don't really think I would-- I don't think I would learn anything from DePalma except how he does his set pieces and I want to my set pieces my way, all right? And like-- it would be, like, the-- and I love DePalma, but that's like learning writing from David Mamet. Well, you learn how to write like David Mamet.
42:41: Charlie Rose: Yeah. Exactly.
42:45: Quentin Tarantino: I mean, you can learn a lot of professional pointers--
42:49: Charlie Rose: Right.
42:52: Quentin Tarantino: --but as far as, like--
42:55: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
42:57: Quentin Tarantino: You know?
42:59: Charlie Rose: When you set out to choose the next movie that you were going to make, having the enormous success of Pulp Fiction, all that came raining down on you, did you have any sense that ''I have got to step up to the plate this time and hit a long ball''?
43:11: Quentin Tarantino: No. Not at all. You--
43:17: Charlie Rose: You were not-- you refused to be--
43:19: Quentin Tarantino: Subconscious.
43:21: Charlie Rose: --prisoner to--
43:23: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah.
43:25: Charlie Rose: --prisoner to what you had done.
43:26: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah. Yeah. I was-- one-- everyone thinks I took a long time and I don't look at it as taking a long time because, one, from the moment Pulp Fiction won the Palm d'Or to the final-- when they had the Oscar ceremony--
43:37: Charlie Rose: Right.
43:39: Quentin Tarantino: --all right, it never stopped during that entire time and that was over a year, all right, so can't do another movie or even think about another movie while this express train is going on--
43:47: Charlie Rose: Right.
43:49: Quentin Tarantino: --all right? Robert Zemeckis didn't, either, all right?
43:52: Charlie Rose: What, you mean after Forrest Gump or--
43:54: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. We were in the same Superbowl, basically.
43:59: Charlie Rose: Right. Right.
44:02: Quentin Tarantino: You know, it took all of our concentration. I'm never going to be the kind of director that does a movie a year. I want-- you know, I invest a year, a year and a half on a movie, I want a year in return come back, you know? And so I took that time and then I started writing and I wrote this script for a year. It took me a year to write it, all right? People are saying, ''What's he doing?'' I'm writing.
44:19: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
44:21: Quentin Tarantino: I'm doing what I do, all right? I don't-- it would be a different situation if I was Richard Donner or somebody like that and I was, like, looking through scripts, trying to find something I would like. Where I would be-- and I talked to Paul Thomas Anderson about this. Where I was feel--
44:33: Charlie Rose: Who made Boogie Nights.
44:34: Quentin Tarantino: Who made the movie Boogie Nights. And he's kind of facing that now and-- if I wasn't a writer, I could be very-- I could imagine it would be very easy to be self-conscious, all right? You know, if I had made Seven-- if I was David Fincher and I made the movie Seven--
44:46: Charlie Rose: Right.
44:48: Quentin Tarantino: --I could imagine I would be very precious about what I would do next, all right, and, like, just trying to find just the right kind of material that really spoke to me and then, because I didn't write it, you'd always be questioning it, all right? I have the luxury I don't have to do that because it starts with a blank page with me, all over again, and it's all about the work. And I had never thought about Pulp Fiction, like, one iota while I was writing Jackie Brown. The only thing I knew-- because I knew I didn't want to out-epic myself, all right? I didn't want to, like-- I didn't want to-- if I did an epic, I would literally have to make even a bigger epic than Pulp Fiction--
45:26: Charlie Rose: Right.
45:27: Quentin Tarantino: --and thought that was kind of stupid, all right? I wanted to do a smaller film, like the-- more character-based. I wanted to go underneath Pulp Fiction.
45:35: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
45:37: Quentin Tarantino: But what I think this film shows is-- I mean, people basically-- and you know this. They-- they talk about-- they talk about my career as if I've done six movies--
45:43: Charlie Rose: Right.
45:45: Quentin Tarantino: --and I've done two. You know, people go, ''I've seen your movies, both of them,'' all right? And Pulp Fiction was as different from Reservoir Dogs as Jackie Brown is different from Pulp Fiction, but you can tell I made all three of them. That's fair. But they all have different things about them. And the feeling is-- it's, like, ''Okay, now do you get it? I'm in here for the long haul and I'm going to make individualistic movies. And you know what? My fourth one's going to be different from these three and my fifth one's going to be different from those four.''
46:11: Charlie Rose: ''I'm going to paint with different colors.''
46:13: Quentin Tarantino: Exactly. But you'll always tell I made them, but I'm not-- I'm not a rock star--
46:19: Charlie Rose: Right.
46:20: Quentin Tarantino: --trying to make the same album.
46:22: Charlie Rose: Is there anything that you have done-- I mean, you have been in the white-hot glare of publicity since Pulp Fiction. I mean, I've read lots of stuff about you. When you look at all that, do you just say, ''Hey, I had a great time. I've lived a good time. I've been serious about my work. I've experimented with things. Some did well. Some didn't do so well, but when I look at how I've spent my time since I made Pulp Fiction and became such a cult favorite and did well at the box office in addition, I'm-- hey''--
46:45: Quentin Tarantino: Oh--
46:47: Charlie Rose: --''I have no complaints''?
46:48: Quentin Tarantino: Oh, not at all. Oh, it's all-- it's all been wonderful. I mean, it's, like, you know, some--
46:51: Charlie Rose: ''This is what I came to''--
46:53: Quentin Tarantino: --movie magazine taking a swipe at me, that I could care-- who cares?
46:56: Charlie Rose: You want to go, and you are going to go, and act in a Broadway play. Hopefully, it'll be a Broadway play.
47:01: Quentin Tarantino: Right.
47:02: Charlie Rose: You'll try it out out of town or somewhere.
47:04: Quentin Tarantino: Right. Exactly.
47:07: Charlie Rose: Why do you want to do that, just because it's the acting thing?
47:10: Quentin Tarantino: Well, yeah. I mean, it's the thing about it is-- I mean, I'm not-- I'm not precious about it being Broadway or not or that whole thing. That's kind of exciting, but that is not the thing. I'm just-- it-- literally, they sent me the play and I read it and the part is a great part and I know-- I know-- I know I can do this guy really well.
47:24: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
47:26: Quentin Tarantino: And I know it would be a great role for me and it really was no different than that. It was just down to that. It was, like, I thought I could do a really good job with this role. And I've been kind of precious about what I've done since I did my performance in Dusk Till Dawn.
47:39: Charlie Rose: Right.
47:41: Quentin Tarantino: I was very proud. I did what I wanted to do with that. I was very proud of that work in there. And so I didn't want to do anything less than that. I wanted to do something beyond that and I think this could be it. And to tell you the truth, I really, really like the idea of-- of, like, ''Okay, you want to go in-- you want to go into acting, all right, in a big way? All right, well, there's the stage, all right? You know, that's-- that's-- that's the actor's medium. It's right there, man. You know, you are there every night, all right, and there you go. And you know, who knows? It's, like, if it works out in this play--
48:19: Charlie Rose: As I understand it--
48:20: Quentin Tarantino: --I might--
48:22: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
48:24: Quentin Tarantino: I might, like, make a movie and then go back to the theater and do a part as a-- do a part in a-- in a-- in a play. Do another movie, go back to the theater as an actor, do another movie, go back to another theater as an actor, you know, rather than try to be in movies or something like that. Who knows? We'll see how it goes.
48:38: Charlie Rose: What kinds of films do you see yourself making over the next five years? Do you-- you can see something that's similar between Pulp Fiction and Jackie Brown. It feels the same. It's the conversation. It's the language. It's the-- it's your language. Your language will always be there. You turned down Men in Blue (sic) or Men in Black or whatever-- Men in Black. You turned down Speed. You've turned down a lot of things, you know, because they didn't what?
49:03: Quentin Tarantino: I-- it would be unfair to say I turned down Men in Black. I did, but I mean, I-- it wasn't what I wanted to do.
49:08: Charlie Rose: Okay.
49:10: Quentin Tarantino: All right? But the thing is, though, I'm pretty self-generating, you know?
49:14: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
49:16: Quentin Tarantino: It's, like, I'm not really in the market for, like, you know--
49:19: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
49:21: Quentin Tarantino: --reading a-- you know, reading scripts and, like, falling in love with it. I want to do the stuff myself, either adapt it or be an original. You know, it's just like if you're dating and you say, ''What kind of woman do you want to fall in love with,'' all right, you know? Any time you try to put it into words and everything--
49:36: Charlie Rose: Yeah. You know.
49:38: Quentin Tarantino: --you'll be damn sure to fall in love with somebody else.
49:42: Charlie Rose: You know it when you see it, but you can't describe it.
49:47: Quentin Tarantino: That's it.
49:50: Charlie Rose: There is this said about you and about this film, is that Quentin somehow loves black culture, loves black music. What is that?
50:00: Quentin Tarantino: It's-- it's me. It's, like, this movie-- I have different sides to me and-- and this movie is that side of me. I grew up-- I grew up completely surrounded in the '70s by black culture, probably the-- one of the-- probably the greatest time of black culture in this nation's history, where it's, like, out in the forefront.
50:20: Charlie Rose: Right.
50:22: Quentin Tarantino: And you know, I went to an all-black school for a long period of time. My-- you know, my mom was a young lady, very young lady in the early '70s. She had black boyfriends. I hung out with them. Her best friend in the world, my second mother, is a woman named Jackie Watts. (sp? ) She's black. The whole house was like the United Nations, all right, and I just grew up completely around black culture and it's part of me and I don't-- I'm not a visitor to it, it's part of me. It's the same way somebody goes to Paris and lives for five, six, seven years, comes back to America, you put him around a bunch of French people, all right, they're just kicking it in French and-- you know, and they've just got it down, all right? They're just doing their thing. That's me, except that was me through, like, my entire childhood.
51:08: Charlie Rose: And when-- and when Spike Lee comes along and says, you know, ''Why is he using in his screenplay the 'N' word so much and putting it in Samuel L. Jackson's mouth,'' what do you say?
51:18: Quentin Tarantino: What I say is-- that's two questions, actually, all right? And you got to find out exactly which question he's asking. If he's asking-- if he believes in his heart of hearts that I'm a racist, that's-- that's one thing, okay? If he doesn't believe in his heart of hearts-- and he knows that's not the case.
51:35: Charlie Rose: Yeah, he knows that.
51:37: Quentin Tarantino: All right. Yeah. Okay. If he doesn't believe that, then it has nothing to do with that. It's simply about me being a writer now, all right, and as a writer, I demand the right to write any character in the world that I want to write and I demand the right to be them, I demand the right to think them and I demand to tell the truths as I see they are, all right? And to say that I can't do that because I'm white, but the Hughes brothers can do that because they're black-- that is racist. That is the heart of racism, all right, and I do not accept that, all right? If he came out with a statement and said, ''The word 'nigger' was used too much in Menace II Society or The Dead President,'' then at least I would-- I still would completely disagree with him, because as a writer, I have the right to any damn thing I have the talent to achieve, all right, and to fail at it, too. But as-- but to say that-- but for him not saying that to them, but saying that to me, that is B.S. and I-- I don't have time for it, all right? And now, the thing is I can guarantee you Ordelle Wilby (sp? ) did not lie in that movie.
52:43: Charlie Rose: He's the character played by Samuel L. Jackson.
52:47: Quentin Tarantino: Yeah. It's, like, he's the one that says the word ''nigger'' all the time. Well, that is how he talks, all right, and that's how a whole big-- that's how a segment of the black community that lives in Compton, lives in Englewood, where this movie takes place, and lives in Carson-- that is how they talk. I am telling the truth. It would not be questioned if I was black, all right? And I resent the question because I'm white. All right, I have the right to tell the truth. I do not have the right to lie. And the thing is, you know, he says, ''If I said 'kike' 35 different times in Mo' Better Blues, they wouldn't let me make another movie again.'' You know, it's, like, ''Well, what are you mad at?'' Did you want to do that and they didn't let you? You're going to blame me, all right? It's, like-- you know, he truly can't sit here-- I-- you know, he's somebody I-- but you know what? At the same time I'm addressing this--
53:40: Charlie Rose: Yeah.
53:41: Quentin Tarantino: --I'm the maddest at the fact that he didn't call me personally. He talked to my partner, Lawrence. (sp? ) He talked to Harvey Weinstein and then he went public and he never called me about it, all right, and, you know, it's, like, I don't want to-- I'm not-- I'll just say what I said now. I'm not going to say it again about Spike Lee from here on in. The only time I'm going to talk about this again is if Spike calls me and I'll talk to him directly about this.
54:06: Charlie Rose: Well said. It's great to have you here.
54:10: Quentin Tarantino: It's great to be here.
54:11: Charlie Rose: As always.
54:13: Quentin Tarantino: I've really been looking forward to this interview.
54:17: Charlie Rose: Thank you. Quentin Tarantino. We go out on a clip from Jackie Brown. Here it is.
54:26: Samuel L. Jackson: My money's in that office, right? She start giving me some bull (deleted) about it ain't there and we got to go someplace else and get it, I'm going to shoot you in the head right then and there. Then I'm going to shoot (deleted) kneecaps, find out where my (deleted) damn money is. She'll tell me, too. Hey, look at me when I'm talking to you (deleted) Listen, I go walking in there, (deleted) Winston or anybody else is in there, you're the first (deleted) to get shot. Do you understand me?
54:58: Robert Forster: Yeah.
55:01: Samuel L. Jackson: There ain't nothing you want to tell me before we get out this car, is there?
55:11: Robert Forster: Nope.
55:14: Samuel L. Jackson: Last chance (deleted). You sure?